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+--- Thread: Maui 17.06 has not fixed my longterm problems. (/showthread.php?tid=24526)
RE: Maui 17.06 has not fixed my longterm problems. - kdemeoz - 11th July 2017
(11th July 2017, 17:31)leszek Wrote: Hmm... so you have the crashing issue on the tower and the laptop?
Yes - that's one of the important points i have been trying to make.
(11th July 2017, 17:31)leszek Wrote: That's even stranger as they use different hardware altogether.
Exactly!
(11th July 2017, 17:31)leszek Wrote: If it's the Intel driver you could try removing the installed package to see if it works better with gallium.
The driver is called xserver-xorg-video-intel
Oh golly - is there any risk that i won't even be able to boot after removing that?
It's now 01:30 AM here, & i'm going to bed. In the morning, i'll check in here to see your reply, & if you still suggest i do that [in Tower - i am not willing to muck about like that with Lappy given it is running brilliantly with oS TW now], then i'll backup my data, remove that package, reboot, & ...
1. if it does not boot, or gives a black screen, then that will be the end of Maui for me & i'll proceed with installing oS TW on Tower.
2. If it does boot ok, then i'll repeat the usual DG / D&D test to see if KWin keeps crashing, then report back here with the results.
Thanks.
PS - I'm not confident that your suggestion will help, coz pls remember that until earlier this year Tower used the separate NVidia GPU, not the integrated Intel GPU, & all these crashes happened then too.
RE: Maui 17.06 has not fixed my longterm problems. - leszek - 11th July 2017
So the crashes happen no matter if intel or nvidia card.
Hmm... Very strange. Can you describe exactly what you configure. Maybe its a general kwin problem. Though that would affect Opensuse then aswell.
RE: Maui 17.06 has not fixed my longterm problems. - kdemeoz - 11th July 2017
(11th July 2017, 18:07)leszek Wrote: Can you describe exactly what you configure.
Rather than me having to translate every System Settings - Workspace Behaviour GUI setting into a list here, is there a specific config file holding all those together in one place? If yes, then i can open it in Kate then copy/paste its content into a code box here.
Good night, for now.
RE: Maui 17.06 has not fixed my longterm problems. - leszek - 11th July 2017
There are several configuration files. Some stuff is stored in kwinrc in ~/.config but not all especially when it comes to edge or hot corner settings.
RE: Maui 17.06 has not fixed my longterm problems. - kdemeoz - 12th July 2017
Given your answer, i decided to just go ahead & manually list below the Plasma/KWin settings i routinely use [ever since Mint 17 KDE4] - these have become a standard, important, part of my workflow, & i'm not prepared to dump them [ie, if a distro can't reliably support them, then i need to find another distro].
Compositor = OpenGL2.0 or 3.1 [if the distro is crash-susceptible, neither of these is better].
Desktop Effects = Zoom, Fade, Fall Apart, Glide, Login, Maximise, Morphing Popups, Scale In, Screen Edge, Sheet, Sliding Popups, Thumbnail Aside, Wobbly Windows, Logout, Magic Lamp, Dialogue Box Parent, Slide Back, Desktop Cube Animation, Desktop Cube, Desktop Grid, Flip Switch, Present Windows.
Screen Edges = Top LH Corner is Desktop Grid; LHS is Present Windows, Current Desktop; Bottom LH Corner is Activity Manager; Bottom is Desktop Grid [yes, that's deliberately a duplication, as the other one often stops working (in Maui; never in oS TW)]; Bottom RH Corner is MinimiseAll/ShowDesktop; RHS is Present Windows, All Desktops; Top RH Corner is Desktop Cube - Cube.
Window Management = DEactivate both "Maximise windows by dragging..." & "Tile windows by dragging...".
Other Settings = Switch desktop on edge: Only when moving Windows.
Virtual Desktops = 9, with 3 rows [ie, giving a 3x3 grid].
Activities = n/a... the same KWin crashes happen in my Test Scenario [on the susceptible distros] regardless of me setting these as 1, 2 or 3.
Please note this new info:
This morning, following on from your suggestion yesterday for me to try booting from Maui LiveUSB [which sadly proved that the "real" Maui KWin crashes under my specific test scenario* ALSO happened here, Live], i remembered i have some older other Plasma5 ISOs from last year or earlier this year (ie, NOT recent Plasma versions], so i burned them to USB & booted from them in Tower this morning. The results were interesting:
* Test Scenario: Configure KWin as above, then open various pgm/doc windows on multiple VDs, then display Desktop Grid then drag&drop individual windows from VD to VD keeping Desktop Grid displayed [the crash does not usually occur if DG is closed the instant the drop is done]. NB: Must test in "real" installations, or LiveMedia, NOT VMs [these crashes never happen in VMs].
1. KaOS [P5.8.5] - rock-solid!! Not a single KWin crash despite my rigorous test. It felt as robust as openSUSE TW does on Lappy.
2. KDE Neon [P5.7.5] - this crashed KWin as badly as Maui does, when doing my test. Frankly i was shocked at this, but then i wondered if this might make sense, given Maui uses KDE Neon for Plasma5...?
3. Mint 18 [P5.6.5] - identical KWin crashes. I can't say i was surprised, as instability was THE reason i abandoned Mint KDE last year & found Maui.
Surprisingly openSUSE no longer provide their own LiveMedia of their ISOs, but i found this https://userbase.kde.org/Live_CDs_-_a_way_to_choose_your_distro#openSUSE + http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Medias/images/iso/ & am downloading a Live ISO whilst writing this; i plan to soon boot from this & evaluate how it performs with my "KWin Test" on Tower.
RE: Maui 17.06 has not fixed my longterm problems. - kdemeoz - 12th July 2017
I have done my final test on Tower. From that website i grabbed "openSUSE_Krypton_stable.x86_64-5.10.90-Build15.1.iso", which is like a development/test-build of Tumbleweed [it happens to use all the same Plasma (5.10.3), Qt (5.9.1), Applications (17.04.2), Frameworks (5.35.0) & Kernel (4.11.8-1) as the official Tumbleweed running on Lappy.
it's great news for me, but not so great news for Maui.
I configured KWin the same way i've already explained, then repeated the same test. It was -- phew -- rock solid; every bit as good as Lappy's TW, & the KaOS Live USB tested a few hours ago on Tower... not a single KWin crash. I'm sorry to have to say, but it leaves all the Ubuntu 16.04-based P5's ive tested/used, in the dust wrt this KWin stability. And of course, the KaOS & oS LiveUSBs have now indisputably proven that my Tower's hardware is not the root cause of the chronic problem.
If you can think of any further realistic test i should try / reconfiguration of Maui that i should do, i'll be happy to try it. However if no other suggestions are viable, then ... sadly ... i think it's now pretty clear to me what i will have to do...
RE: Maui 17.06 has not fixed my longterm problems. - leszek - 12th July 2017
You could still try instaling the same kernel from ubuntus vanilla kernel ppa.
Though if it's an xserver/driver issue there is no newer version available currently that can be easily installed.
RE: Maui 17.06 has not fixed my longterm problems. - fanisatt - 12th July 2017
@ kdemeoz
I understand your condition....
I am not an expert and I don't know how to help but , I think that we live a transition period in Linux !!
I think that there are problems in any kde5 distro.
Oh yes , I have also tried other distros.
Kaos ... very good , the KDE purity ... but Ι don't live in an angel society, I can't see the wine application...and many other applications I love and I use for years... So , it's not for me !! (I remember I tried a sudo update-grub in order to include a new OS in the boot sequence, (I had just installed it in an other disk), but....to my surprise nothing happened there....it was an unknown command for KaOs...)
Opensuse...the KDE giant....but I had to try very much to find some codecs to play videos and music...and generally I had to search here and there for instructions.... Sorry...!!
And the big surprise .... I tried the new Debian 9 !!! The master of stability !!!!
But ... the master was freezing continuously because the Nouveau drivers could not work well with my Nvidia GT-710 ... and I tried a lot...but nothing... The only solution for me to work was to install the nvidia drivers ... but this is not good for a Debian system and any Debian based system. (Same problem I had with Netrunner...)
Mint...it's generaly good !!
But MAUI is better....!!!
Best Regards !!
RE: Maui 17.06 has not fixed my longterm problems. - kdemeoz - 12th July 2017
(12th July 2017, 9:59)leszek Wrote: You could still try instaling the same kernel from ubuntus vanilla kernel ppa.
Though if it's an xserver/driver issue there is no newer version available currently that can be easily installed.
RE: Maui 17.06 has not fixed my longterm problems. - kdemeoz - 12th July 2017
(12th July 2017, 10:15)fanisatt Wrote: @ kdemeoz
I understand your condition....
I am not an expert and I don't know how to help but , I think that we live a transition period in Linux !!
I think that there are problems in any kde5 distro.
Oh yes , I have also tried other distros.
Kaos ... very good , the KDE purity ... but Ι don't live in an angel society, I can't see the wine application...and many other applications I love and I use for years... So , it's not for me !! (I remember I tried a sudo update-grub in order to include a new OS in the boot sequence, (I had just installed it in an other disk), but....to my surprise nothing happened there....it was an unknown command for KaOs...)
Opensuse...the KDE giant....but I had to try very much to find some codecs to play videos and music...and generally I had to search here and there for instructions.... Sorry...!!
And the big surprise .... I tried the new Debian 9 !!! The master of stability !!!!
But ... the master was freezing continuously because the Nouveau drivers could not work well with my Nvidia GT-710 ... and I tried a lot...but nothing... The only solution for me to work was to install the nvidia drivers ... but this is not good for a Debian system and any Debian based system. (Same problem I had with Netrunner...)
Mint...it's generaly good !!
But MAUI is better....!!!
Best Regards !!
Teehee, yes, we do have a lot of choice, & no nothing is perfect... but this longterm KWin instability has been a growing irritant to me ever since i moved on from Mint 17.3 KDE4 & began trying Plasma5 distros. I concede that for any user who does not use the KDE DE quite as intensely as i do [regarding all the bells & whistles], then they might never experience these KWin crashes. That, however, does not help me, as i do use it this way, & need my OS to cooperate with me. As i wrote before, until i decided to test some non-Ubuntu-based Plasma5 distros, i had falsely assumed that every distro using a Plasma5 DE would suffer the same problem. Now that i've discovered that's untrue, it completely changes my likely future distro trajectory.
Maui is good, a really really good distro. I loved it from the moment i discovered it last year. I've told many people about it, & i know that several changed to it because of that. I have nothing but admiration for this project, the people running it, & the small but friendly & helpful community here. But... this KWin thing...
