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+--- Thread: Maui 17.06 has not fixed my longterm problems. (/showthread.php?tid=24526)
RE: Maui 17.06 has not fixed my longterm problems. - kdemeoz - 13th July 2017
I'm going to bed now, but if you can pls describe how i should check on those two things, then tomorrow morning i shall do it & report back. I can tell you that i already looked in the openSUSE's /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/ , out of curiosity some hours ago, but it does not have that file 20-intel.conf [& on Lappy, like Tower, i have chosen to use the integrated Intel GPU, not the NVidia].
Btw, would it help at all if i posted a vokoscreen file showing you exactly what i do & what happens, when the crashes occur?
RE: Maui 17.06 has not fixed my longterm problems. - leszek - 13th July 2017
Yeah a video screencast showing exactly what you do to reproduce the crash would be nice. Though it might be that vokoscreen will die when kwin crashes.
As for getting the versions on opensuse. Just try checking with its package manager.
The packagenames on opensuse are slightly different.
xorg-x11
kernel-default
mesa
That should be the names on there. But please check if those packages are really installed on your system.
RE: Maui 17.06 has not fixed my longterm problems. - kdemeoz - 14th July 2017
(13th July 2017, 18:46)leszek Wrote: Yeah a video screencast showing exactly what you do to reproduce the crash would be nice. Though it might be that vokoscreen will die when kwin crashes.
I made the screencast, & it [the pgm] behaved well [ie, the KWin crashes didn't abort it]. You can download it here https://www.sendspace.com/file/m7on1a
I hope it is pretty much self explanatory, but here's a few comments. I began with a clean session via Tower reboot, then purged the duplicated windows that existed across all the Activities, ie, in the beginning of the video, only one Activity contains windows. I briefly demonstrated some of the Desktop Effects, especially including my Screen Edges & Hot Corners as i laid out for you in an earlier post. Pls note that the top LH corner, Desktop Grid, initially worked fine, but soon breaks [common occurrence], hence i had to revert to its duplicate at screen bottom edge. When i began the actual test by showing the DG, initially after dragging a window i instantly clicked the VD to ensure NO crash occurred... all still good at this point. Then i moved another window in the DG, but this time deliberately did not click the VD after, i just waited, & as expected [but hated], KWin crashed. After this i showed you that now all Activities have all windows [sooooo annoying]. By now the top LH corner has broken. After restarting KWin i more or less repeated the procedure, so you can see that the crashes are completely repeatable. NONE of this bad stuff [now] happens on Lappy, with its oS TW.
(13th July 2017, 18:46)leszek Wrote: As for getting the versions on opensuse. Just try checking with its package manager.
The packagenames on opensuse are slightly different.
xorg-x11
kernel-default
mesa
That should be the names on there. But please check if those packages are really installed on your system.
Here [the first one is a bit surprising]:
Code:
linux-763v:~> zypper info xorg-x11
Loading repository data...
Reading installed packages...
Information for package xorg-x11:
---------------------------------
Repository : Main Repository (OSS)
Name : xorg-x11
Version : 7.6_1-16.3
Arch : noarch
Vendor : openSUSE
Installed Size : 794 B
Installed : No
Status : not installed
Source package : xorg-x11-7.6_1-16.3.src
Summary : Compatibility metapackage for X.Org sample applications
Description :
This package is a compatibility metapackage. It used to contain the
X.Org sample applications.
linux-763v:~> zypper info kernel-default
Loading repository data...
Reading installed packages...
Information for package kernel-default:
---------------------------------------
Repository : Main Repository (OSS)
Name : kernel-default
Version : 4.11.8-1.2
Arch : x86_64
Vendor : openSUSE
Installed Size : 258.9 MiB
Installed : Yes
Status : up-to-date
Source package : kernel-default-4.11.8-1.2.nosrc
Summary : The Standard Kernel
Description :
The standard kernel for both uniprocessor and multiprocessor systems.
Source Timestamp: 2017-06-29 16:37:33 +0200
GIT Revision: 42bd7a027035420d318d4cb5a3db7233aff32b44
GIT Branch: stable
linux-763v:~> zypper info mesa
Loading repository data...
Reading installed packages...
Information for package Mesa:
-----------------------------
Repository : Main Repository (OSS)
Name : Mesa
Version : 17.1.4-166.1
Arch : x86_64
Vendor : openSUSE
Installed Size : 28.7 MiB
Installed : Yes
Status : out-of-date (version 17.1.3-165.1 installed)
Source package : Mesa-17.1.4-166.1.src
Summary : System for rendering interactive 3-D graphics
Description :
Mesa is a 3-D graphics library with an API which is very similar to
that of OpenGL.* To the extent that Mesa utilizes the OpenGL command
syntax or state machine, it is being used with authorization from
Silicon Graphics, Inc.(SGI). However, the author does not possess an
OpenGL license from SGI, and makes no claim that Mesa is in any way a
compatible replacement for OpenGL or associated with SGI. Those who
want a licensed implementation of OpenGL should contact a licensed
vendor.
Please do not refer to the library as MesaGL (for legal reasons). It's
just Mesa or The Mesa 3-D graphics library.
* OpenGL is a trademark of Silicon Graphics Incorporated.
linux-763v:~>RE: Maui 17.06 has not fixed my longterm problems. - kdemeoz - 14th July 2017
This additional info might be important. When i did the oS TW installation those several weeks ago, its Ruby Installer initially startled me with this:
As per my captured mouse position, i chose to go with the emulation rather than "real" driver... could this be a big factor in why TW is solid but Maui is fragile [KWin]?
RE: Maui 17.06 has not fixed my longterm problems. - kdemeoz - 18th July 2017
Hi again leszek. Did my video & other info help at all? Do you think there's any chance of a solution, or would it be best that i just give up on this now & move on?
RE: Maui 17.06 has not fixed my longterm problems. - leszek - 18th July 2017
I cannot reproduce the issue on my machines (also intel ones but hd3000 and hd4000 ones).
As I am on vacation now until the end of this month there will be most probably no update regarding this topic.
RE: Maui 17.06 has not fixed my longterm problems. - kdemeoz - 21st July 2017
I did not actually seriously expect this to have fixed it, but now it's at least yet another thing ruled out: this morning's kernel update to 4.10.0-27 made no improvement to my ongoing problem.
RE: Maui 17.06 has not fixed my longterm problems. - kdemeoz - 23rd July 2017
(18th July 2017, 23:23)leszek Wrote: I cannot reproduce the issue on my machines (also intel ones but hd3000 and hd4000 ones).
As I am on vacation now until the end of this month there will be most probably no update regarding this topic.
Hi
Once you return, you don't need to spend any more time on this intractable problem, as it no longer matters to me. Given that i've never been able to solve it, throughout all versions of Maui, & with all the hardware & firmware changes i've done, & given you can't replicate it, i took the decision that it's not practicably solvable, & so i've jumped ship.
I'd like to thank you & the other people who have given me such good tech support in my various posts. I'd also like to congratulate the Maui team again on a fine distro, & wish you a great future.
RE: Maui 17.06 has not fixed my longterm problems. - kdemeoz - 23rd November 2017
(12th July 2017, 6:16)kdemeoz Wrote: Given your answer, i decided to just go ahead & manually list below the Plasma/KWin settings i routinely use [ever since Mint 17 KDE4] - these have become a standard, important, part of my workflow, & i'm not prepared to dump them [ie, if a distro can't reliably support them, then i need to find another distro].
Compositor = OpenGL2.0 or 3.1 [if the distro is crash-susceptible, neither of these is better].
Desktop Effects = Zoom, Fade, Fall Apart, Glide, Login, Maximise, Morphing Popups, Scale In, Screen Edge, Sheet, Sliding Popups, Thumbnail Aside, Wobbly Windows, Logout, Magic Lamp, Dialogue Box Parent, Slide Back, Desktop Cube Animation, Desktop Cube, Desktop Grid, Flip Switch, Present Windows.
Screen Edges = Top LH Corner is Desktop Grid; LHS is Present Windows, Current Desktop; Bottom LH Corner is Activity Manager; Bottom is Desktop Grid [yes, that's deliberately a duplication, as the other one often stops working (in Maui; never in oS TW)]; Bottom RH Corner is MinimiseAll/ShowDesktop; RHS is Present Windows, All Desktops; Top RH Corner is Desktop Cube - Cube.
Window Management = DEactivate both "Maximise windows by dragging..." & "Tile windows by dragging...".
Other Settings = Switch desktop on edge: Only when moving Windows.
Virtual Desktops = 9, with 3 rows [ie, giving a 3x3 grid].
Activities = n/a... the same KWin crashes happen in my Test Scenario [on the susceptible distros] regardless of me setting these as 1, 2 or 3.
Please note this new info:
This morning, following on from your suggestion yesterday for me to try booting from Maui LiveUSB [which sadly proved that the "real" Maui KWin crashes under my specific test scenario* ALSO happened here, Live], i remembered i have some older other Plasma5 ISOs from last year or earlier this year (ie, NOT recent Plasma versions], so i burned them to USB & booted from them in Tower this morning. The results were interesting:
* Test Scenario: Configure KWin as above, then open various pgm/doc windows on multiple VDs, then display Desktop Grid then drag&drop individual windows from VD to VD keeping Desktop Grid displayed [the crash does not usually occur if DG is closed the instant the drop is done]. NB: Must test in "real" installations, or LiveMedia, NOT VMs [these crashes never happen in VMs].
1. KaOS [P5.8.5] - rock-solid!! Not a single KWin crash despite my rigorous test. It felt as robust as openSUSE TW does on Lappy.
2. KDE Neon [P5.7.5] - this crashed KWin as badly as Maui does, when doing my test. Frankly i was shocked at this, but then i wondered if this might make sense, given Maui uses KDE Neon for Plasma5...?
3. Mint 18 [P5.6.5] - identical KWin crashes. I can't say i was surprised, as instability was THE reason i abandoned Mint KDE last year & found Maui.
<<snip>>
Hello leszek
I don't know if you remember me, but i used to post here a lot, until i stopped using Maui several months ago due to disappointment at the problems discussed in this thread.
I feel duty-bound to now report back here with some very nice news about this protracted problem of KWin crashing when dragging windows from desktop to desktop in the Desktop Grid. I have solved it, & i thought you might like to know.
Well, i should rephrase that. I have not solved the underlying bug, but i have identified specifically what causes these tiresome crashes, & hence now i know how to workaround so that the crashes no longer occur. The bug somehow does seem to exist only in Ubuntu-16.04-based Plasma5 distros; as i wrote above, it does not occur in any of the RPM-based distros i have used & tested.
Pls note the large red bold italic font i used when i quoted my older post, above. It is specifically this desktop effect, "Fall Apart", which triggers the bug that crashes KWin. All other desktop effects, compositing, general settings, can still be used with safety. To avoid all those nasty crashes, i have now discovered that simply not using this one desktop effect, entirely avoids the problem.
I am really pleased to have finally discovered this from my ongoing testing, but now i also feel like an idiot. If i had realised this long ago i would never have needed to stop using Maui. Sigh.