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[Solved] - Integrated MoB sound vs Nvidia card sound? - Printable Version

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[Solved] - Integrated MoB sound vs Nvidia card sound? - kdemeoz - 7th March 2017

This is probably a silly enquiry, but nevertheless if someone could advise me i'd be grateful.

As per https://forums.mauilinux.org/showthread.php?tid=24237&pid=41972#pid41972 i have recently removed the Nvidia GT610 gpu from my Tower, whilst chasing a long-term Plasmashell freeze problem. I am thus now running only on the integrated Intel gpu [specs below]. Prior to removing the Nvidia, though i was having various graphics issues, my audio volume was fine. I was therefore entirely taken by surprise to discover, once the Tower was rebuilt [new Maui (17.03 instead of 2.1) & removed Nvidia] that there's now a major audio problem.

There was initially no output from the same green socket on the rear panel of the Tower case that my speakers were plugged into prior to the card removal. Eventually i was able to get some sound out, by experimenting with the SysTray audio applet settings. However even with me using its "Volume Boost [150% Volume]" AND cranking up the input sources [eg, Clementine; browser multimedia volumes] also to their own maxima, the resultant audio volume is unbearably quiet. I have to be no more than a couple of metres from the speakers at best, but with many of my browser-based streams i have to be directly next to the speakers now... if there's any background noise it's even more hopeless. It did not used to be like this, when the Nvidia card was still installed.

So my question; is such muted volume simply normal for integrated soundcards, or not?

I ask because i have no prior knowledge or experience of this situation - what to me sounds like an unsustainable problem might only be par for the course when there's no separate card.

For several months my external speakers [nothing special, only a cheap
https://secure.logitech.com/en-au/product/multimedia-speakers-z213] were beginning to malfunction [the sub-woofer would frequently produce static rather than bass, or cut out completely, although the two satellite speakers were fine]. That situation continued right up to the moment that my Tower had its recent nuclear meltdown per https://forums.mauilinux.org/showthread.php?tid=24237&pid=41870#pid41870 ... but the important point is that though the subby was dodgy there was still excellent audio volume from the 2 little speakers. Whilst it's possible that the speakers got much worse / failed, somehow, whilst they were not in use during my recent Tower troubleshoot & rebuild process, that timing seems a bit coincidental.

So in summary i now have a low-volume sound problem, whose cause must be either the speakers themselves, or the integrated Intel soundcard simply is working at its limits which are markedly less than the Nvidia card. I do not have a spare set of speakers i can try. I suppose i could reinstall the Nvidia gpu again; if the loud audio then returned i would have my answer... BUT the whole point of removing the Nvidia was to test if it was the cause of all my Maui freezes, per my other thread.

Comparative specs, first NOW, & then BEFORE:
Code:
Graphics:  Card: Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller
          Display Server: X.Org 1.18.4 drivers: (unloaded: fbdev,vesa) Resolution: 1920x1080@60.00hz
          GLX Renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Haswell Desktop GLX Version: 3.0 Mesa 12.0.6
Audio:     Card-1 Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor HD Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel
          Card-2 Intel 9 Series Family HD Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel
          Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k4.8.0-39-generic

Code:
Graphics:  Card-1: Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller bus-ID: 00:02.0                                                                                                                                      
          Card-2: NVIDIA GF119 [GeForce GT 610] bus-ID: 01:00.0                                                                                                                                                                                    
          Display Server: X.Org 1.18.4 drivers: nvidia (unloaded: fbdev,vesa,nouveau)                                                                                                                                                              
          Resolution: 1920x1080@60.00hz                                                                                                                                                                                                            
          GLX Renderer: GeForce GT 610/PCIe/SSE2 GLX Version: 4.5.0 NVIDIA 367.57 Direct Rendering: Yes                                                                                                                                            
Audio:     Card-1 Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor HD Audio Controller                                                                                                                                                                  
          driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:03.0                                                                                                                                                                                                    
          Card-2 Intel 9 Series Family HD Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:1b.0                                                                                                                                                  
          Card-3 NVIDIA GF119 HDMI Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 01:00.1                                                                                                                                                          
          Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k4.4.0-45-generic  


RE: Integrated MoB sound vs Nvidia card sound? - leszek - 7th March 2017

Can you run alsamixer in a terminal switch with f6 to the right soundcard and take a look at Master, Speaker, PCM mixer values there. Turn them up (hopefully they are able to turn up) to raise the volume.

RE: Integrated MoB sound vs Nvidia card sound? - kdemeoz - 8th March 2017

Hi & thanks. I had previously looked at that, but had not understood how to "control" it. Following your suggestion i have now spent a lot of time fiddling with it, all the while streaming music with Clementine, so i would be able to instantly assess if anything good [or bad] happened. Nothing i tried at all helped to raise the sound volume to "acceptable", though i was able to find some settings that reduced it [which obviously is unhelpful, other than it proved these settings were active].

Before i paste several pics, back to my original question; "is such muted volume simply normal for integrated sound-cards, or not?" --> can i infer from your reply that in fact an integrated sound-card actually should be able to produce acceptable output volume? 
  • If that's the correct answer, then it would follow that my current problem is bad speakers, so i need to buy new ones...?   
  • Of course, if the opposite answer is true, that in fact integrated sound-cards are never as "loud" as separate cards, then it would seem unavoidable that i shall need to reinstall my Nvidia GT610.
   
   

Here, most of the bars were already maximised, but i manually increased the others also to maximum:
   

I don't understand what these 2 RHS bars do, but i couldn't find a way to change them:
   

From experimentation i found that only these 3 bars made any difference to the volume, but as you can see they're already maximised (ie, the only difference i could make here was to lower them; unhelpful), but the speaker volume remains far too soft:
   

A few more pics to follow...

RE: Integrated MoB sound vs Nvidia card sound? - kdemeoz - 8th March 2017

This seems to be a problem...?
   

Other graphical settings FYI:
   
   
   

I don't understand the LHS bar, & could not change it. The 4 red bars are already maximised, with the "Volume Boost [150% Volume]" set. Clementine is also maximised in the pgm GUI itself. None of this helps; the speaker volume remains far too soft:
   


BTW, Maui 17.03 is very nice overall, & in the context of this thread its improved SysTray audio widget [per my last pic] is a nice improvement. I congratulate the Devs & Testers for their talent & hard work. 

RE: Integrated MoB sound vs Nvidia card sound? - leszek - 8th March 2017

So everything is at max. That means it should work fine. Are you sure that the speakers are OK? Can you control volume on those speakers?
Do you have a mixer or some other hardware to test the output from the soundcard of the pc in any way to see if it is loud enough?

RE: Integrated MoB sound vs Nvidia card sound? - starbuck - 8th March 2017

The good thing with the new volume applet is you can right-click on its tray icon and should be able to bring up also pulseaudio volume.
Maybe that brings more insight?

RE: Integrated MoB sound vs Nvidia card sound? - kdemeoz - 8th March 2017

(8th March 2017, 11:09)starbuck Wrote: The good thing with the new volume applet is you can right-click on its tray icon and should be able to bring up also pulseaudio volume.
Maybe that brings more insight?

Thanks, & i do agree that the new applet is great. However i had already discovered this extra functionality, indeed several of the pics i uploaded came from this method, so i seem to be at the end of my configuration adjustment options [as far as i have so far discovered, anyway]. 

I apologise for being so repetitive, but still nobody has given me an explicit answer to my question* --- am i right to assume that even "just" the integrated sound card should still produce a good range of volume [including loud]... OR... is that a silly expectation, in which case my only option to have loud is to reinstall my Nvidia card? 

*i need to understand this, coz if an internal card can never generate "loud", then i'd be wasting my money to buy new speakers... conversely if it can/should be capable of "loud", then i should be able to spend the money on new speakers confident it will solve the problem. I hope that makes sense.

RE: Integrated MoB sound vs Nvidia card sound? - kdemeoz - 8th March 2017

(8th March 2017, 10:17)leszek Wrote: So everything is at max. That means it should work fine. Are you sure that the speakers are OK? Can you control volume on those speakers?
Do you have a mixer or some other hardware to test the output from the soundcard of the pc in any way to see if it is loud enough?

No i am not sure the speakers are ok [which is why i kept writing that bad speakers is one of the possibilities]. But as i also said, currently i have no other speakers, so i cannot do a quick simple test by swapping out the speakers. I will certainly go & buy new speakers IF i can first confirm that my current speakers have broken, but so far that eludes me. 

That's why i have repeatedly asked the question about can integrated sound cards produce loud volume? (ie, if the answer is yes, then that will indirectly prove my speakers have broken, by logical deduction). Conversely if the only way to achieve loud [= how it was before i recently removed the Nvidia card] is to have a dedicated card, then i will know that buying new speakers is unnecessary & instead i would need to reinstall the Nvidia.

To your other question, no - i do not have any test equipment. 

RE: Integrated MoB sound vs Nvidia card sound? - leszek - 8th March 2017

Quote:That's why i have repeatedly asked the question about can integrated sound cards produce loud volume?
Of course they can otherwise they would be a piece of crap and no one would use them.

RE: Integrated MoB sound vs Nvidia card sound? - kdemeoz - 8th March 2017

(8th March 2017, 11:57)leszek Wrote:
Quote:That's why i have repeatedly asked the question about can integrated sound cards produce loud volume?
Of course they can otherwise they would be a piece of crap and no one would use them.

Excellent, that's what i assumed, but i wanted to know, not just assume. You see, i did not understand if maybe the only purpose of such integrated cards was purely to allow simple quiet system sounds [like the bing when some programs open, or when new emails arrive], but maybe not have enough power for say playing music fairly loudly. Now that you've confirmed, i can confidently now go get new speakers. Thank you.